--- Log opened Fri Dec 23 00:00:23 2011
00:02 < conseo> mcallan: for the rac i don't think that grouping the mosquitos under a common "others" group is discrimantory. from a resource perspective they should organize with people on a similiar scale of engagement (at least in magnitude) or else become candidate themselves
00:02 < conseo> they will still be visible in votespace
00:03 < conseo> have to think about this, but do you see any problems with it?
00:40 < mcallan> conseo: yes, potentially...
00:40 < mcallan> the linear order will no longer match the votespace circle
00:41 < mcallan> could you give mosquito a tiny segement, just big enough to hover over?
10:26 < serapath1> ...mosquito... lol
13:34 < conseo> mcallan: you mean each mosquito or all of them?
13:35 < conseo> i can try to do so, but we can't show positions beyond the 20 in votespace then without getting problem with a let's say 5px minimum hover width for each mosquito
14:09 < serapath1> can't we just use a mosquite net to keep them away :P
14:09 < serapath1> ..ah ok i guess that wont be very democratic
14:11 < conseo> not really
14:41 < mcallan> conseo: :-) i agree, they're a nuisance...
14:43 < conseo> i tend to group them (< 1% of nodes target) with the selected node itself 
14:43 < conseo> from a resource pov, little resources are little interesting :-)
14:43 < conseo> as long as we have votespace this is ok, since it is a particular view
14:43 < conseo> imo
14:45 < mcallan> if you were to follow my orginal suggestion (which is just to be consistent with votespace), then i would only show the dart-sectored mosquitoes (20 max), because that's all votespace currently shows.  we don't yet have an 'others' category, like in old votespace
14:52 < conseo> hmm, but in the rac this means that numbers don't match and i get another segment for the "outsiders"
14:53 < mcallan> the numbers don't add up in votespace, either.  i was going to worry about that later
14:53 < mcallan> (trivial edge case)
14:54 < conseo> but an outsider could contribute 20% or more e.g.
14:54 < conseo> ok
14:54 < conseo> i'll leave them out
14:54 < mcallan> no more than 5%, and that's highly unlikely
14:55 < conseo> this thing is really much more time consuming than hacking, although hacking has at least some functional result
14:55 < conseo> why?
14:55 < conseo> is this unlikely?
14:56 < conseo> if somebody rich votes for his closest candidate, he might be new and an outsider, yet economically important
14:57 < mcallan> oh yet, you're right...
14:57 < mcallan> ... i was thinking votes, not resources
14:57 < conseo> it is a slightly different perspective
14:58 < conseo> otherwise we could drop the rac (what I have thought about as well if pov would be the same)
14:58 < conseo> or at least my stack concept, not the whole rac
14:59 < mcallan> i'm lost, thought we were talking about mosquitoes in a single track
14:59 < conseo> yes, forget about what i said besides it
15:00 < conseo> i was just saying that if i would visualize the same in a bar then votespace would likely be enough and the bar unnecessary
15:01 < mcallan> so no track at all, i'm confused
15:01 < mcallan> we need it, it shows progress to target
15:01 < mcallan> crucial
15:02 < mcallan> votespace has the same problem with unsectored (this is what we're talking about) voters
15:03 < mcallan> an unsectored voter is not shown at all, but might be contributing huge resources (though not huge votes)
15:04 < mcallan> i say it's *still* an unimportant edge case, and we should ignore it for now
15:13 < conseo> yes, as i said, you can forget about it
15:14 < conseo> i have just clarified (or haven't), but it is not important my current design focus
15:14 < mcallan> ah, ok
15:15 < conseo> what do you mean with a bar in the background to fill the empty space to the target up? and empty frame, something like a thermometer bar or with what can i measure space subtle without weakening the visual
15:15 < conseo> ?
15:16 < mcallan> i was asking that you *not* fill it.  leave it empty
15:19 < mcallan> s/asking/suggesting
15:19 < mcallan> i remember now... i was speaking of a vertical bar to show the target, if necessary
15:20 < mcallan> (not important)
15:23 < conseo> what do you mean with bar? just a slim rectangle?
15:24 < mcallan> |
15:27 < conseo> ok
15:27 < conseo> mcallan: btw. wrong channel
15:31 < mcallan> ?
15:34 < conseo> metagov instead of votorola for dev specifics
15:34 < mcallan> you're fault.  you
15:34 < mcallan> (sorry) are fired ;-)
15:39 < mcallan> stupid joke, pay no attention.  i'm suddenly happy because despite huge challenges (at least for me), there are several signs the ovn is going to succeed
15:56 < serapath1> ovn ftw
16:06 < mcallan> ftw?
16:33 < serapath1> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/FTW
16:33 < serapath1> 1.
16:34 < serapath1> :P
19:22 < conseo> mcallan: which signs are there?
20:42 < mcallan> serapath1: lol
20:46 < mcallan> i'm now logging this channel again btw, in case anyone ever needs to read back: http://zelea.com/var/cache/irc/metagov/11-12/23
20:47 < conseo> ok, good
20:47 < mcallan> just signs...
20:47 < conseo> which signs are there for ovn's success?
20:47 < conseo> well, would be good to know if i am about to present it at the next teamspeak conference
20:49 < conseo> at least i would like to be as up-to-date as possible
20:50 < mcallan> all the past difficulties of reaching out to other projects, and to users, are fallling away...
20:51 < mcallan> occupy is magic in this way
20:55 < mcallan> conseo: i keep this up-to-date with new posts about set-up (which is nearly complete): https://wiki.occupy.net/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Allan/RFC/Open_voting_network#External_discussions
21:02 < serapath> yeah ;-) i hope so... never imagined that when i followed thomas's link to metagovernment a couple of months... or even more than a year ago :)
21:05 < mcallan> yes, it's been difficult in the past (many years for me) to reach out... so it
21:05 < mcallan> ... it's just a relief.
21:05 < mcallan> (not that there's any firm success to speak of)
21:06 < mcallan> ... yet :-)
21:10 < serapath> btw. i've never seen... read someone like you throughout my entire life :-) i guess it sounds cheesy, but i like the path you show through your ...very unintuitive and technical writings :P
21:13 < mcallan> thank you :-)
21:47 < mcallan> i am quitting for the day...
21:47 < mcallan> goodnight gents
21:53 < serapath> good night
21:53 < serapath> :)
21:54 < conseo> n8
23:15 -!- tropology_ is now known as tropology
--- Log closed Sat Dec 24 00:00:38 2011