--- Log opened Fri Jun 03 00:00:57 2011
08:30 < conseo_temp> hey guys, finally weekend...
08:30 < conseo_temp> mcallan: ping
08:30 < conseo_temp> thomasvonderelbe: ping
08:36 < thomasvonderelbe> pong
08:36 < thomasvonderelbe> conseo_temp: pong
08:36 < conseo_temp> hey
08:37 < conseo_temp> my laptop arrives soon hopefully, it has already been shipped
08:37 < conseo_temp> then i only need to assemble it which hopefully is straightforward
08:38 < conseo_temp> thomasvonderelbe: you are right, the votespace's needles can also be mapped to any of the other vote's properties, esp. sum($property) for all voters, where $property can be anything quantifyable like money, time, satisfaction or even doubt
08:38 < conseo_temp> i am trying to think the structure a bit abstract and formalized, so we can keep properties variable
08:40 < thomasvonderelbe> did you read the link I sent you?
08:40 < conseo_temp> i think we can say that n properties together form something like a vector space. ideally we can then calculate all kind of information out of the resources behind votes
08:40 < thomasvonderelbe> about open-capitalist or somehting
08:41 < conseo_temp> yep
08:41 < conseo_temp> some time ago
08:41 < thomasvonderelbe> fits very well with your idea, right?
08:41 < conseo_temp> i think many people are chasing what i do, but they mix their terms up
08:41 < conseo_temp> this still is a good sign, since it means the time has come for this idea to be implemented
08:42 < conseo_temp> yep
08:43 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
08:44 < thomasvonderelbe> what do you mean with "mapping" here:  the votespace's needles can also be mapped to any of the other vote's properties, esp. sum($property) for all voters
08:46 < conseo_temp> that the needle shows the percentage of the needed resource, but this might be tricky to calculate, since all positions might have more than 100% resources for the plan
08:51 < thomasvonderelbe> lol
08:51 < thomasvonderelbe> this would be a reason to celebrate nothing to worry about, wouldnt it=?
08:52 < conseo_temp> thomasvonderelbe: do you now what i mean with a vector space? (i can explain it differently)
08:52 < thomasvonderelbe> i mean, the needles point the same way as always and the tree-structure stays the same too, just the percentage shows recourses now instead of consensus, right?
08:52 < conseo_temp> thomasvonderelbe: well no, it just means that the sum of resources is not necessarily 100%
08:52 < conseo_temp> as 100% is defined in the draft
08:53 < conseo_temp> it also does not mean that any proposal mets all needed properties
08:54 < conseo_temp> so you can have 120% money after any single position, but it still lacks e.g. machines, time, etc.
08:55 < thomasvonderelbe> plz answer my question above
08:55 < conseo_temp> the needles can show for example the amount of money a position has 
08:56 < conseo_temp> maybe we can even show different needles at once, but this might clutter the interface, so we have to think about the visualization
08:56 < thomasvonderelbe> but they point the same way as always and the tree-structure stays the same to
08:56 < thomasvonderelbe> too
08:56 < conseo_temp> sure
08:56 < thomasvonderelbe> ah ok
08:56 < conseo_temp> in fact we only "decorate" the tree with (semantic) properties
08:56 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
08:56 < thomasvonderelbe> hm
08:57 < conseo_temp> brb
08:57 < thomasvonderelbe> so the problem you talk about is: what is the amount which counts up to 100%
08:57 < thomasvonderelbe> and who defines this value?
08:57 < thomasvonderelbe> this needs to be solved
08:57 < thomasvonderelbe> right?
09:13 < conseo_temp> re
09:14 < conseo_temp> thomasvonderelbe: i would say that you do it on your position page
09:14 < conseo_temp> (if this is what you mean)
09:15 < conseo_temp> the page is always tight to your vote and defines what your position is. for resources, which are tied to your person and your vote, this is not part of the draft
09:15 < conseo_temp> but is a fixed part of the position page
09:17 < conseo_temp> thomasvonderelbe: was that your question?
09:19 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
09:20 < thomasvonderelbe> so every user defines the value for 100% himself
09:21 < thomasvonderelbe> therefore for the same project some users may say it has reached 120% already while others say it only has 50% yet
09:21 < thomasvonderelbe> conseo_temp: sure, this should work
09:21 < conseo_temp> well the 100% is part of the draft imo
09:21 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
09:22 < conseo_temp> yep
09:22 < conseo_temp> ok
09:22 < thomasvonderelbe> of each draft potentially different
09:22 < conseo_temp> yep
09:22 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
09:22 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
09:22 < thomasvonderelbe> should work
09:22 < thomasvonderelbe> !
09:22 < conseo_temp> should be pretty good to organize a consensus materially
09:23 < conseo_temp> i have to talk to mike about this and need to have a look at the code
09:23 < thomasvonderelbe> hm, yes. its gonna be exciting
09:23 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
09:23 < conseo_temp> i'll post a plan to the list this weekend (i hope)
09:23 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
09:24 < thomasvonderelbe> say, why you have to accounts now?
09:24 < thomasvonderelbe> here
09:24 < conseo_temp> i am loading this session over a backup on my sister's pc and i don't have the quassel password here for some quirky reason
09:24 < thomasvonderelbe> lol 
09:24 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
09:25 < conseo_temp> my laptop completely died, so while still waiting on the parts i have to help myself ;-)
09:25 < conseo_temp> this also makes development a bit of a pain, but hopefully i can get some thoughts hammered out
09:25 < thomasvonderelbe> conseo, I spent the whole day in front of this monitor today. I want to go out now, the sun is shining beautifully ...
09:25 < conseo_temp> the portugese stuff sounds very interesting
09:26 < conseo_temp> sure
09:26 < thomasvonderelbe> oh, thats bad
09:26 < conseo_temp> do so
09:26 < conseo_temp> i'll go to bed (i have done math all night with mixed results...)
09:26 < thomasvonderelbe> you are going to repair it or build a new one from parts?
09:27 < conseo_temp> first i build the new one, then i hope i can get the old one repaired (i'll take some independent service for that [kostenvoranschlag])
09:27 < thomasvonderelbe> and then sell the old one?
09:27 < conseo_temp> maybe, but it is pretty messed up
09:27 < thomasvonderelbe> hm
09:27 < conseo_temp> (not too bad, but i likely don't get much for it)
09:28 < thomasvonderelbe> ok, good luck with this!
09:29 < thomasvonderelbe> till soon my friend!
09:32 < conseo_temp> cu soon
16:22 < thomasvonderelbe> mcallan: hey, can we have a talk tomorrow, i.e. in about 14 hrs.?
--- Log opened Fri Jun 03 18:22:11 2011
18:23 -!- You're now known as mcallan
18:25 < mcallan> thomasvonderelbe: i'm awake around 10:00 my time. we could hook up then, or any time after
--- Log closed Sat Jun 04 00:00:14 2011