--- Log opened Fri May 06 00:00:22 2011
04:38 < thomasvonderelbe> mcallan: did you just get this insight about the co-voters?
04:39 < thomasvonderelbe> mcallan: because, this is what I helplessly tried to tell you a while back, when we were talking about the footings a few times.
04:41 < thomasvonderelbe> This is a sandbox-test. I'm talking to my best voter. He is just a sockpuppet, but has many many votes. http://u.zelea.com:8080/v/w/D?b=4127&a=4107
04:41 < xfbot> POLL: G/p/sandbox
04:41 < xfbot> AUTHOR: ThomasvonderElbe GmxDe
04:41 < xfbot> POSURL: http://u.zelea.com/mediawiki/index.php?oldid=4127
04:42 < mcallan> looking
04:43 < mcallan> ...well, it's not pretty. we have work to do in the d-bridge.
04:44 < thomasvonderelbe> mcallan: are you pretending to my sockpuppent-voter?
04:46 < mcallan> maybe some of what you were saying earlier rubbed off on me.  but my thoughts about co-voters were prompted by our discussions in G/p/m00...
04:46 < mcallan> ok, so i'm aa8?
04:47 < mcallan> i'm feeling kind of lonely here: http://u.zelea.com/w/User:Test-aa8-ZeleaCom/G/p/sandbox
04:48 < thomasvonderelbe> I just posted this diff here, to get an entry in the crossforum feed of the sandbox-poll, but it doesnt work yet.
04:49 < thomasvonderelbe> how long does it take?
04:49 < mcallan> (the diff footprints are nice, but nothing else in the footings seems useful)
04:49 < mcallan> hmm, this is a test...
04:50 < mcallan> yes, i am a big voter: http://u.zelea.com:8080/v/w/Votespace?p=G!p!sandbox&u=Test-aa8-ZeleaCom
04:50 < mcallan> it's you who's lonely
04:51 < thomasvonderelbe> well, the links to the diff-brigde are useful
04:51 < thomasvonderelbe> the navigation to other drafts is useful
04:52 < thomasvonderelbe> the link to the votespace is useful
04:52 < mcallan> nah, the controls suck.  we can do better later, from *outside* of the wiki
04:52 < mcallan> what are you getting at with aa8?
04:53 < thomasvonderelbe> ahh, now it showed up! it takes 10 min.!
04:53 < mcallan> oh, the feed
04:54 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
04:54 < thomasvonderelbe> Here is another test: asdf asdf asdf asdf asdf asdf asdf http://u.zelea.com:8080/v/w/D?b=4127&a=4108
04:54 < xfbot> POLL: G/p/sandbox
04:54 < xfbot> AUTHOR: ThomasvonderElbe GmxDe
04:54 < xfbot> POSURL: http://u.zelea.com/mediawiki/index.php?oldid=4127
04:54 < mcallan> (c shouldn't have commited that, it looks like hell)
04:54 < thomasvonderelbe> lol
04:55 < mcallan> there's a deliberate delay
04:55 < thomasvonderelbe> you mean by purpose?
04:55 < thomasvonderelbe> why?
04:55 < mcallan> it's not supposed to be immediate, but the *intervals* between messages are supposed to be accurate
04:56 < mcallan> reason is efficiency
04:56 < mcallan> it works by polling...
04:56 < thomasvonderelbe> you mean computer steam?
04:57 < mcallan> it's more about saving on network chatter.  to show the message immediately, the browser would have to checking for new messages every second
04:57 < thomasvonderelbe> i understand
04:57 < thomasvonderelbe> btw, hell looks different!
04:58 < mcallan> and it doesn't have to be immediate, so c checks every 10 minutes (or whatever) and gets a full 10 minutes
04:58 < mcallan> ... worth to play back in the browser
04:58 < mcallan> :-) but you saw, he has a nicer version coming
04:59 < thomasvonderelbe> yes, the one with real bubbles, right?
04:59 < mcallan> yes, but he's busy at school, at least till the wkend
05:00 < thomasvonderelbe> i did suggest to him, to have the inside of the bubbles blue, instead of the outside, what do you think?
05:01 < thomasvonderelbe> oh, i got a phone call
05:02 < mcallan> this is still my preference: http://zelea.com/project/votorola/a/crossforum/vote/_/3.xht
05:37 < thomasvonderelbe> ah ok, the inside of the bubble is couloured here too. I like that.
05:44 < mcallan> yes, the inside fill is for the selection cue.  it tricky to do on a black screen, and easy to overdo
05:47 < thomasvonderelbe> say, when do you think is the next circle possible? I cant wait to click something ... :-)
05:49 < mcallan> i know, it's been so slow, and this thing (together with diff feed) is so crucial...
05:50 < mcallan> all the other circles are easy. (they'll come all at once, not one at a time, ofc)
05:52 < thomasvonderelbe> its all always too slow for my taste. but dont take me serious in this! 
05:52 < thomasvonderelbe> how long do you think?
05:53 < mcallan> 1 day to recover from the first circle ;-) ...
05:53 < thomasvonderelbe> lol
05:54 < thomasvonderelbe> one day off and then how many more?
05:55 < mcallan> if i focus on this exclusively (and i probably will)...
05:56 < mcallan> well, here's my plan (not much detail to it):
05:56 < mcallan> |- count sensitive count and count-node caches, and votespace model
05:56 < mcallan> |    = flushed on detection of new count
05:56 < mcallan> |    - detect only on fetches to server, not otherwise
05:56 < mcallan> |        - user can always effectively force a flush by refreshing the client
05:56 < mcallan> |= peripheral circles
05:56 < mcallan> |    = move to dart scoping
05:56 < mcallan> |        - variation of position scoping in which positions are specified by paths
05:56 < mcallan> |          composed of dart sectors
05:56 < mcallan> |        - each sector specified by a single radix 20 digit, in consonant-only form
05:56 < mcallan> |        - to extend later to accomodate unsectored positions
05:56 < mcallan> |    - JSON
05:56 < mcallan> |        [ node
05:56 < mcallan> |            [ USERNAME
05:56 < mcallan> |                [ voter
05:56 < mcallan> |                    [ ARRAY-USERNAMES
05:56 < mcallan> |= plan the rest
05:56 < mcallan> |= enable projected vote trace
05:56 < mcallan> |    - optimize away CR_Vote.TracePair's fetch of user traceNode and supply
05:56 < mcallan> |      it with PersonJig.traceNode()
05:56 < mcallan> |    - consider WP_Votespace.CorrectableCount
05:56 < mcallan> + 1 day for the caching/flushing
05:57 < mcallan> + 2 dart scoping
05:58 < thomasvonderelbe> all this in 4 days?
05:58 < mcallan> + 2 to fetch, cache and draw the circles
05:58 < thomasvonderelbe> 6
05:59 < mcallan> unfort., yes...
05:59 < thomasvonderelbe> no problem! just wanted to know, so I can tame my impatience ;-)
06:00 < thomasvonderelbe> cool!
06:00 < mcallan> i don't like estimating, because i always pretend (to myself) it's just a "few" days more... :)
06:01 < mcallan> i get super-impatient, too :-)
06:01 < thomasvonderelbe> lol, I can imagine
06:02 < mcallan> so it's about a week to get the visual as drawn, and then i don't know what else to make it useable like the current vspace
06:02 < mcallan> (but the pieces should come faster and faster now)
06:03 < thomasvonderelbe> for example the links to the drafts
06:03 < thomasvonderelbe> ok, dont worry please
06:04 < mcallan> (i don't worry, i like that somebody else cares about this stuff!) yes the links, tho much of that be left as usability details...
06:04 < thomasvonderelbe> ah ok
06:05 < mcallan> the voting feedback is the hard thing, where you see your own vote shift (like current vspace)
06:05 < thomasvonderelbe> hm ok
06:05 < mcallan> but i guess that's a detail too, because we'll just link to that vspace for voting, at first
06:05 < thomasvonderelbe> but possible, right?
06:05 < mcallan> oh yes
06:05 < thomasvonderelbe> :-)
06:06 < mcallan> difficult = 1 week, i guess
06:06 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
06:06 < mcallan> but it's the visual design that's crucial, and i think we have it nailed (thanks to you).  i'm writing to the list now
06:06 < thomasvonderelbe> did the sun come out in toronto meanwhile?
06:07 < mcallan> yes, and i missed it yesterday, but today i'll enjoy it!
06:08 < mcallan> thomasvonderelbe: do you have 20 minutes more?
06:08 < thomasvonderelbe> yes, I think it is very very good! the only other way seems to be the all-showing map where you have to zoom in. and this could be done by someone else sometime in the future
06:08 < thomasvonderelbe> yes
06:08 < mcallan> i'll just post this, then maybe chat briefly about center clockwork
06:09 < thomasvonderelbe> ok, on skype!?
06:09 < thomasvonderelbe> just call me, when you are done
06:09 < mcallan> ok
06:10 < mcallan> (5 minutes)
06:10 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
06:21 < mcallan> thomasvonderelbe: ring me, ok?
06:25 < mcallan> u prefer this: http://zelea.com/project/votorola/a/crossforum/vote/_/1a.xht
06:29 < mcallan> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/a/crossforum/vote/_/1b.xht
06:30 < mcallan> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/a/crossforum/vote/_/1d.xht
06:30 < mcallan> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/a/crossforum/vote/_/1.xht
06:32 < mcallan> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/a/crossforum/vote/_/
07:11 < mcallan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel
07:12 < mcallan> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/RGV_color_wheel_1908.png
08:06 < mcallan> thomasvonderelbe: lost you
08:33 < mcallan> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286244/
20:57 -!- tropology_ is now known as tropology
--- Log closed Sat May 07 00:00:37 2011