--- Log opened Tue Apr 26 00:00:15 2011
05:22 < conseo> mcallan, thomasvonderelbe instead of doing slideshows to present votorola, what about an intro feed, which happens for new users 
05:22 < conseo> ?
05:23 < conseo> and guides through crossforum
05:37 < thomasvonderelbe> intro-feed means demo-feed or some real content? 
05:37 < thomasvonderelbe> yes, sounds good. 
05:38 < thomasvonderelbe> best maybe, global feed with all events of the last week or so
05:44 < conseo> like the diff-feed, but with steps and help
05:45 < conseo> so people can easily explore crossforum
05:45 < conseo> we can also demonstrate different mappers from there
05:45 < conseo> (and feeds)
05:45 < conseo> + it would be translatable
05:46 < conseo> sure an event feed is also possible (although i am not sure about the wider use case?)
05:46 < conseo> maybe this would be a good intro for a new developper
05:49 < conseo> we could even add a slideshow mapper then, which would show graphics and more text for bites in the feed
05:49 < conseo> (dunno if this is really necessary)
06:27 < thomasvonderelbe> at first glance I would say, the real crossforum is more interesting to newcomers
06:29 < thomasvonderelbe> even if they dont understand right away, but they see something happening which is very intersting: real people, real talking, strange structure, real voting ... what is it? lets find out?
06:31 < thomasvonderelbe> whereas if we make the crossforum look like just another more sophisticated form of presentation, we hide its true attraction. dont you think?
06:32 < conseo> maybe, i would make the intro skippable at any point
06:33 < conseo> as i said, it is all english (not easy to understand for everybody), people are not familiar with vote concepts (delegates and stuff) and we might want to show them some details so they get the idea quicker
06:34 < conseo> ideally the intro should progress from quick explanations to a more detailed information if you are interested in it. we can then also embed parts of the docs there, so you can link/embed them
06:35 < conseo> thomasvonderelbe: have you seen that now also the mails of you that have been missed in the past (mixed of html and plaintext parts) are in crossforum?
06:41 < conseo> bbl
06:52 < thomasvonderelbe> conseo: cool. I dont remember all my posts, but  if you say so. :-)
06:54 < thomasvonderelbe> your last post in the feed says "link" in the beginnng, which is a bug i guess.
06:54 < thomasvonderelbe> concerning the intro: I feel, if we use the crossforum for this kind of thing we hide its true functionality
06:55 < thomasvonderelbe> so imo a seperate slide-show would be better, if we feel this is needed.
06:55 < conseo> yep, it is fixed (needs a rebuild from mike). i had to trace down a stupid bug 
06:55 < thomasvonderelbe> plus: the crossforum itself can be translated too, cant it?
06:56 < conseo> not the messages
06:56 < conseo> of course
06:56 < thomasvonderelbe> yes, thats true
06:56 < thomasvonderelbe> hm, ...
06:56 < thomasvonderelbe> then maybe best, to zoom into the country of the first-time-user first
06:56 < conseo> i think that a feed with let's say 10 intro messages (to switch through the mappers and finally to move to the diff feed or sth.) would be helpful
06:57 < conseo> not nec. a mapper for it
06:58 < thomasvonderelbe> you mean, maybe thats empty in some cases?
06:58 < thomasvonderelbe> true
06:59 < conseo> we are very familiar with the concepts and have some doubts that new users will quickly understand what is going on (assuming that we might also get a technically rather unexperienced (e.g. older), but politically interested audience
06:59 < conseo> s/and have/and i have/
07:00 < thomasvonderelbe> hm, maybe you are right. if we make it really clear, that this is not just a slideshow, but actually the place where it all is happening
07:00 < conseo> at least i think it is better than doing a powerpoint pres. with matteo, if you can instead build an embedded help with his developers which also satisfies the need of demonstration
07:01 < thomasvonderelbe> which shouldnt be so hard
07:01 < conseo> we could make it point to sth. like sys/p/sandbox and then show what that means with the social mapper as well as the geomapper e.g.
07:01 < thomasvonderelbe> you see, I had the idea, ...
07:01 < conseo> the feed is hardcoded (can be shipped from text files) and would be easy to code even for an outside programmer
07:02 < conseo> the rest stays the same and only gets adjustments to make switching of the mappers and feeds straightforward
07:02 < thomasvonderelbe> once the social mapper is working, it would be really easy to make a screencast of it and explain with speaking what it is all about
07:03 < conseo> but it is still imo better to guide the person herself through it, it is a lot easier to remember if you have already navigated the ui in the first place
07:03 < conseo> + the screencast would be again elsewhere
07:04 < conseo> (maybe an audio feed would also be possible)
07:04 < thomasvonderelbe> left or right of it
07:04 < conseo> html5 is capable of it
07:04 < conseo> in the feed
07:04 < conseo> (?)
07:04 < thomasvonderelbe> what you mean with "guide the person herself through"? would she have to click through stuff
07:04 < thomasvonderelbe> ?
07:05 < conseo> she would click through the feed and get step by step advisory
07:05 < conseo> for let's say 10 step or sth.
07:05 < conseo> steps
07:06 < thomasvonderelbe> but you do see, that it is a completely different usage of the thing!? it might confuse people
07:07 < conseo> why? it is a hardcoded conversation (instruction) about the vote space
07:07 < conseo> the mapper would react the same to the feed
07:07 < conseo> (it doesn't know if it is hardcoded or live data)
07:08 < thomasvonderelbe> it will look like a sophisticated help function
07:08 < thomasvonderelbe> not like an e-dem-tool
07:08 < thomasvonderelbe> at first glance
07:08 < conseo> why not? you will see the social mapper (or the geomapper if you prefer) in the first place still
07:08 < conseo> just the conversation will be fixed
07:09 < conseo> or better the diff-feed will behave a little bit different
07:09 < thomasvonderelbe> what will the map show?
07:09 < conseo> imo the social mapper
07:09 < conseo> V
07:09 < thomasvonderelbe> just one poll fixed, or will it move?
07:10 < conseo> as you wish
07:11 < conseo> the mapper will react on the help-bites exactly like on the diff-bites for example
07:13 < thomasvonderelbe> the conversation will 1. not be about the poll-content and 2. it will not be a conversation of voters but a monologue of a helping guide
07:13 < thomasvonderelbe> like a sophisticated help function
07:14 < thomasvonderelbe> like a sophisticated slide-show
07:15 < conseo> hmm, why is it not about the poll-content? and a monologue is not nec. a problem as the diff-feed is only one of many possible feeders anyway
07:15 < conseo> e.g. a news feeder with a list of new polls would also be possible
07:16 < thomasvonderelbe> true
07:16 < thomasvonderelbe> its not about the poll-content, but about the crossforum-usage
07:16 < conseo> the advantage would be that a help would be in any crossforum installation instead of a fixed link to some external slideshow
07:17 < conseo> which is about poll-content :-D
07:17 < conseo> this is what the help explains imo
07:17 < conseo> maybe i am wrong and a slideshow is better, but moving the help and stuff into crossforum is imo the best way
07:18 < thomasvonderelbe> the beauty of it, would be, that it is all included already. and people started using it already in a very easy and limited way
07:19 < thomasvonderelbe> as an alternative i would make a video-screen-cast, no slide-show
07:19 < thomasvonderelbe> maybe you are right!
07:19 < conseo> let's see what mike things about it
07:19 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
07:19 < conseo> i am off for now
07:19 < conseo> bbl
07:19 < conseo> cu
07:19 < thomasvonderelbe> ok cu!
--- Log closed Wed Apr 27 00:00:29 2011