--- Log opened Fri Apr 01 00:00:28 2011
09:24 < thomasvonderelbe> mcallan: ping
10:31 < conseo> thomasvonderelbe: ping
10:33 < thomasvonderelbe> conseo: hey old friend!
10:33 < conseo> thomasvonderelbe: how are you?
10:34 < thomasvonderelbe> fine, thx
10:34 < thomasvonderelbe> and you?
10:34 < conseo> a little bit dizzy but i just got the scraper to work reliably mapping the pipermail archive. one post still failing though...
10:35 < thomasvonderelbe> one of the last 2, right?
10:35 < thomasvonderelbe> I wanted to ask you about it.
10:36 < conseo> do you mean crossforum running with mike?
10:36 < conseo> i think he hasn't updated lately, he is still waiting for me to finish the config handling (we made it scriptable so the admin can adjust it to her needs)
10:37 < thomasvonderelbe> i meant this: http://whiletaker.homeip.net:8080/voff/crossforum/#c=DG
10:37 < conseo> ok
10:37 < conseo> i have to push the new code and then you might recheck?
10:37 < thomasvonderelbe> ah ok
10:37 < conseo> it is changed a lot so it won't make sense to audit the old behaviour for bugs
10:38 < conseo> do you think that something will come out of metagovernment?
10:38 < thomasvonderelbe> hey, what a question ...
10:38 < thomasvonderelbe> something for sure
10:38 < thomasvonderelbe> what is the question 
10:39 < conseo> the call to action by owen was on the one hand in my scope (organizing economic resources), but it is still vague and we have no democratic processes in there
10:39 < thomasvonderelbe> right?
10:39 < thomasvonderelbe> I thought about your post quite a lot
10:39 < conseo> that they simply dismiss the draft_rules and homepage layout shows imo that they are not really interested in using metagovernment to collaboratively work together
10:39 < thomasvonderelbe> but havent started to answer yet
10:40 < conseo> ok
10:40 < thomasvonderelbe> somehow its also funny, the people, arnt they?
10:41 < thomasvonderelbe> we have a really specific question to solve, and everybody starts to talk about all kinds of things
10:41 < conseo> i have the feeling that they like the status quo... and don't want to really come out of the corner
10:41 < conseo> yep, it is mostly talking
10:41 < thomasvonderelbe> yes, maybe thats really what they want. have a place to talk about good ideas and plans ...
10:42 < conseo> and most of that talk is repetetive and in ways ignorant to what others are interested in
10:42 < conseo> maybe, but i am still thinking about if a 100% consensus ruleset is necessary ...
10:43 < thomasvonderelbe> yes yes, but actually I dont see this so much as a problem. Its just, we should somehow make sure, that it doesnt come in the way of metagov evolving further.
10:43 < thomasvonderelbe> exactly
10:43 < conseo> i like it, but it might be too difficult to start the democratic process in some situations
10:43 < thomasvonderelbe> 100% scares me somehow
10:44 < thomasvonderelbe> we would have this endless talk all the time
10:44 < conseo> it is the only acceptable target imo, but we could start with a simple majority maybe and let people than go the way to 100% for the rules
10:45 < conseo> in the end the rules for first enforcement have to be decided by the project anyway and not by votorola...
10:45 < conseo> imo
10:46 < thomasvonderelbe> well i think we need the 100 for the rules itself. but not for the homepage...
10:46 < thomasvonderelbe> but Ed wants it for every decision
10:46 < thomasvonderelbe> I am somehow open to try it out though
10:46 < conseo> ok that makes rules pointless imo
10:47 < conseo> i don't think it is necessary
10:47 < conseo> as long as you agree 100% to the rules all other polls are accepted by you as well
10:47 < thomasvonderelbe> why would it make rules pointless? the rule would be 100 instead of 50 or so
10:47 < conseo> as soon as polls bend the rules in ways you don't like you disagree on the rules
10:48 < thomasvonderelbe> ahh
10:48 < thomasvonderelbe> intereseting, never thought of that
10:48 < conseo> 100% consensus is already perfect. if you completely agree on a draft then why do you need rules to apply it. simply do the results and actions in the draft and you are done
10:49 < conseo> i think "rules" or you could also say strategies of application make sense, because they would be shared polls between different issues
10:50 < thomasvonderelbe> yes, if the meta-answer is 100, then you dont need to meta-question. but i hope for another answer. 
10:51 < thomasvonderelbe> I need to think ...
10:51 < conseo> maybe the institution involved could agree on a first rule and somehow use that as an anchor to votorola
10:52 < thomasvonderelbe> is your skype working?
10:52 < conseo> hehe
10:52 < conseo> one moment
10:52 < thomasvonderelbe> to much to type
10:52 < thomasvonderelbe> too
10:53 < thomasvonderelbe> no "to" was right, i always get confused to vs. too
10:54 < conseo> ready
11:58 < thomasvonderelbe> try again plz
11:58 < conseo> thomasvonderelbe: can i go shopping first
11:58 < conseo> ?
11:58 < thomasvonderelbe> ok
11:58 < conseo> let's say 18:45-19:00 when i come back?
11:59 < thomasvonderelbe> good
11:59 < conseo> ok
11:59 < conseo> cu later
11:59 < thomasvonderelbe> ;-)
13:06 < conseo> thomasvonderelbe: re
--- Log closed Sat Apr 02 00:00:43 2011