--- Log opened Thu Mar 10 00:00:21 2011
04:15 -!- tawhuac [5960bef5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.96.190.245] has joined #metagov
04:30 -!- tawhuac [5960bef5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.96.190.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
07:22 -!- tropology [~Tropology@adsl-69-209-49-231.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
07:24 -!- MichaelMaranda [~Michael@adsl-69-209-49-231.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
08:08 < conseo> sure
08:08 < conseo> mcallan: before we demo it i need to replace the loop with a db query only requesting the bites since last query
08:08 < conseo> ticking comes after
08:13 < conseo> mcallan: what are you currently doing?
08:24 < mcallan> conseo: i'm fixing a servlet bug, it'll need to be replicated in your own servlet
08:25 < conseo> ok
08:37 < conseo> mcallan: the ircbot can save a backlog of chats. it also logs conversations on channels where it is invited to.
08:37 < conseo> it makes sense imo to integrate our backlog functionality there
08:38 < conseo> how would i best write to a logfile? currently i simply use the file api, but maybe i'd use a logger?
08:39 < mcallan> so it's not already logging the chats, ur just thinking about it?
08:48 < conseo> it is
08:48 < conseo> pircbot is really easy to code
08:49 < conseo> it is just dumping them hardcoded to "/var/tmp/crossforumbot.log"
08:50 < conseo> or do u think admins will automatically run irssi for all chat rooms of the project?
08:51 < mcallan> ah, u need the chat archive for the diff feed.  i see...
08:51 -!- The_User [~jonathan@87-166.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #metagov
08:52 < conseo> yep, i need it to link to it from crossforum, other than that i don't need it necessarily as the bot parses irc on the fly
08:55 < mcallan> maybe begin by researching chat logging in general. u might find a solution already rolled. because it's a pain to roll ur own from scratch
08:55 < conseo> mcallan: i only need a default location from u
08:55 < conseo> logging already works
08:56 < conseo> i can make it configurable, but instead of bloating the configs i'd prefer to use a sane default or sth. which is configurable on java level
08:57 < conseo> if not i'll add a log target to the harvester.js
08:57 < conseo> once this is fixed u should be able to run it already. u can even remove the log for now and run xfBot
08:58 < conseo> but it would make sense to do logging there imo
09:01 < mcallan> what u need is a URL right? not a file system location
09:01 -!- The_User [~jonathan@87-166.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:01 -!- The_User [~jonathan@87-166.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #metagov
09:03 < conseo> for now it only dumps the chat log. this is because any crossforum admin needs a backlog if he wants to target irc (like we do)
09:03 < conseo> so if we do a bot, which makes sense imo and works already we do the backlog as well
09:04 < conseo> that backlog works already, but i need a sane log target
09:04 < conseo> for the URL i can use url_base
09:04 < conseo> which is already there for the harvester
09:07 < mcallan> could be a problem if the admin is already logging the chat
09:08 < conseo> why?
09:08 < mcallan> he might be fond of it, the users too
09:09 < mcallan> he might not want to switch to our log
09:09 < conseo> well then he can still do his own and point to the web-url
09:09 < conseo> but i need to switch it off then
09:11 < mcallan> how do u interface to his log archive?
09:12 < conseo> dunno, i don't think this is easy unless he follows the logging style of the bot
09:13 < conseo> but honestly the admin should stick to the bot logging the output (which is already a standard [pircbot]) and log seperately for other stuff if he really needs to imo
09:14 < mcallan> if there already are standards for chat logging, then all u need from admin is location of the standard log archive (URL)
09:15 < conseo> but this archive would be useless, because at the same time you start using crossforum and votorola you only start to get diff-urls and therefore a need to link to an archive.
09:16 < conseo> the archive created by the bot costs nothing except file space, while running a different log solution needs additional setup + and irc-client running
09:17 < mcallan> in the case we mentioned, he already *has* a log archive in a standard format (no setup)
09:17 < conseo> when we do the backlog we can link from crossforum to the archive (like to pipermail), but if we leave that open to the admin than he has to assure that he meets our url standards
09:17 < conseo> then he only gets double disk space usage
09:18 < conseo> which is really small for irc
09:18 < conseo> but vice versa the admin would have to learn and setup all the details of irc logging
09:18 < mcallan> if he already has a standard, compatible log, why does he need a 2nd one?
09:20 < conseo> vice versa is the problem. if he doesn't then he really does not want to get into irc setup and logging just to target some chatroom where discussions might take place as well.
09:20 < conseo> if we can do that on our own (which is pretty easy), he will be setup without even knowing anything about irc
09:22 < conseo> i'll make it configurable.
09:22 < conseo> so we'll leave it to the admin.
09:23 < conseo> the bot is also smarter than an ircclient btw.
09:27 < conseo> there is not one standard and we might need to insert markers for the linking
09:31 < mcallan> conseo: so u already researched? in any case, if u find that existing chat archives cannot be used for this purpose, then i agree u must design and impl ur own. but that's a worse-case scenario.
09:32 < conseo> ok
09:39 -!- tropology [~Tropology@adsl-68-255-110-132.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #metagov
09:47 -!- MichaelMaranda [~Michael@adsl-68-255-110-132.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #metagov
10:05 -!- The_User [~jonathan@87-166.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:43 < mcallan> conseo: i did the servlet fix (in DiffFeedSS too) and committed
10:47 < conseo> ok htx
10:48 -!- The_User [~jonathan@ip-109-90-5-182.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #metagov
10:48 < mcallan> i think DiffFeedSS has potential bug, where dmt is initialized
10:49 < mcallan> for a safer way, see DiffCacheSS.init(). also see how it uses volatile modifier on fields
11:01 < conseo> ok, i'll have a look into it
11:01  * conseo is going to eat some potatoes
11:07 -!- MarkDilley [~MarkDille@c-76-27-236-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: MarkDilley]
11:23 < conseo> mcallan: ok tried with the constructor before, didn't work. i'll use init() then
11:33 < mcallan> conseo: just 2b sure, the lack of volatile (or synchronize) is the potential bug
11:35  * mcallan is testing the /me trick
11:35 < mcallan> (it works)
11:47 < conseo> ok
11:50 -!- MarkDilley [~MarkDille@173-8-216-57-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #metagov
11:55 < mcallan> conseo: another minor bug, i posted to the pad
11:56 < mcallan> for consistency with other daemons, I would: hg mv harvester.js voharvester.js
11:57 < conseo> ha, i have asked you that before ;-) i thought namespacing would only apply to binaries
11:57 < conseo> ok got the error in the pad
12:00 < mcallan> sorry, i must have misunderstood
12:02 < mcallan> so that's it, i guess the feed is all set up. Maybe tomorrow i start to finish the bridge footings in the wiki.
12:04 < mcallan> then over to the other side of the bridge, i'll need your java API into feed.diff_messages, so we can link from bridge to to discussions
12:07 < mcallan> i'm done for the day, cu soon
17:34 -!- The_User [~jonathan@ip-109-90-5-182.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:37 -!- The_User [~jonathan@ip-109-90-5-182.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #metagov
20:29 -!- MarkDilley [~MarkDille@173-8-216-57-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: MarkDilley]
21:07 -!- The_User [~jonathan@ip-109-90-5-182.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:07 -!- MarkDilley [~MarkDille@c-76-27-236-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #metagov
21:24 < mcallan> conseo: id idn't answer ur q earlier. If voharvester has output to store (like chat archive), default shd probably be pollserver's ~/votorola/out/voharvester: see eg. http://u.zelea.com/system/host/u/home/v/votorola/out/
23:24 -!- tropology [~Tropology@adsl-68-255-110-132.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: tropology]
--- Log closed Fri Mar 11 00:00:35 2011