--- Log opened Sun Mar 06 00:00:56 2011
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07:43 < conseo> mcallan: ping again ;-)
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13:16 < conseo> mcallan: ping
17:16 < mcallan> conseo: pong
17:16 < conseo> mcallan: got your mail, not sure yet why it doesn't work for me
17:16 < conseo> yesterday i had already figured out that code in VODeliver
17:16 < conseo> but it was not helpful really, have you tried to run my code?
17:17 < mcallan> no
17:17 < conseo> ok
17:17 < conseo> hmmm
17:18 < mcallan> if you can't debug the code, then i shouldn't run it
17:18 < conseo> btw. great work with the drafting integration in the wiki. looks cool to me
17:18 < conseo> i have edited one of my drafts in your wiki anonymously yesterday. is this supposed to be allowed?
17:19 < mcallan> (ok, i saw it.) but vodeliver doesn't do *anything*
17:20 < conseo> what do you mean?
17:20 < mcallan> what coomand to you type?
17:20 < conseo> i have not tried vodeliver yet, wait a moment
17:21 < mcallan> you said "not sure yet why it doesn't work for me"
17:21 < conseo> for my code
17:21 < conseo> it does the same thing
17:21 < conseo> even the slashes in the urls match
17:22 < mcallan> i am confused! what email did u read (url)?
17:23 < conseo> i try to open the folder with URLName "maildir:/home/voff/Maildir" and then load the folder "INBOX"
17:24 < mcallan> Did u read this? http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/2011-March/003653.html
17:25 < conseo> yep
17:26 < mcallan> INBOX is for IMAP, I suppose - not for maildir
17:26 < conseo> http://javamaildir.sourceforge.net/examples/
17:27 < mcallan> http://zelea.com/var/db/repo/votorola/rev/9ad03d569a26
17:28 < mcallan> see 1.84 and 3.27
17:28 < mcallan> something's changed, don't ask me why
17:29 < mcallan> but i got it to work, it seems
17:30 < conseo> ok
17:31 < conseo> i missed that in the diff, sry
17:32 < mcallan> sok
17:39 < conseo> btw "INBOX" or "inbox" is just a reference to the default inbox in maildir folders. it is simply a subdirectory in the mailbox with me
17:43 < conseo> puuh that code is buggy. you may *not* try to inbox.close() although you do inbox.open() for maildir support
17:43 < conseo> they don't even do that in the examples, while for imap it is in the doc
17:44 < conseo> now it runs, but it doesnt load the unseen messages :-/
17:45 < conseo> brb
17:55 < mcallan> conseo: You probably know, but: For maildir folder F, unseen messages are in F/new, while seen messages are in F/cur.
17:56 < mcallan> But something is wrong, because vodeliver seems to be marking messages it puts in F/new as seen (:S).
17:56 < mcallan> Maildir is described here: http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html
18:01 < mcallan> My mistake, the trailing ",S=1140" on the name of the delivered file is supposed to be there.  See "Delivering" here: http://www.courier-mta.org/imap/README.maildirquota.html
18:09 < mcallan> conseo: i get confused because i don't know if the internal maildir directories (cur, new, tmp) are "folders" in the JavaMail sense. I never cared, because voface-mail simply deleted its messages after processing them (never marked them as seen S, or whatever).
18:11 < mcallan> Anyway, i'll leave u to it.  BTW this looks more helpful than anything else i've seen: http://wiki.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/Maildir
20:11 < conseo> mcallan: ok thanks for the info. no i don't think they are folders in the java mail sense, but they are rather part of the definition of maildirs
20:12 < conseo> if you use makemaildir from courier these three empty subfolders is what you get
20:13 < conseo> i know that i can move the files around between "new" and "cur", yet this has no effect
20:31 < mcallan> conseo: ok, i'm rusty on mail. can't be much help. (so shut up, mike)
20:32 < conseo> no you are helpful, that was not my point. i am just angry that the javamaildir support behaves weird and starts fragmenting my mail code with stupid conditionals
20:44 < mcallan> too many conditionals is no good i agree, better to split the code
20:45 < mcallan> then factor out the common parts (if necessary) as subroutine calls, what have you
20:48 < conseo> ooops, javamaildir is gpl. this makes us also gpl (at least the code for the harvester and vodeliver) right?
20:49 < conseo> i am troubled by the fact the maildir stuff is from 2006 and unmaintained as well as behaving differently than the sun mail providers (imap.pop3,...)
20:49 < conseo> it seems to be the only maildir implementation out there
20:50 < conseo> i know, i simply don't know why javamaildir behaves that way. there is no docs
20:51 < mcallan> the licensing issue is secondary, so maybe leave that aside
20:51 < mcallan> i don't like javamaildir either
20:53 < conseo> i am just wondering if we really sail under bsd if we bluntly link against gpl libraries
20:56 < conseo> gnu java mail is a little bit older and they use the same open("INBOX") style code in the README
20:56 < conseo> s/older/younger
20:57 < conseo> they are GPL, too, of course.
20:57 < mcallan> yes http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/mail/COPYING?root=classpathx&view=markup
21:00 < mcallan> i fear (unfortunately) GNU JavaMail is too big a library to be careless about
21:00 < conseo> *maybe*, but only maybe i can create a jar for only the maildir provider, but i guess it would make sense to replace it with gnu java mail then, which would on the other hand cut us from upstream java mail
21:01 < conseo> i fear that maildir support is buggy and absolutely old and unmaintained. sth. i can not really support + it is gpl
21:01 < mcallan> if u are sure (and i don't doubt) then next best is mbox
21:02 < mcallan> several mbox providers here: http://java.sun.com/products/javamail/Third_Party.html
21:03 < conseo> http://java.sun.com/products/javamail/Third_Party.html
21:03 < conseo> lol
21:03 < conseo> ok
21:03 < conseo> there is no other maildir support there
21:04 < mcallan> i know, i'm thinking i'm wrong to be using it at all. my postfix can deliver to mbox.
21:04 < mcallan> (sorry)
21:06 < conseo> well maildir was designed to succeed over mailboxes and i think the reasons are not too bad. it is just that it seems that java mail is not very much into mbox/maildir stuff, but rather tries to do imap right
21:07 < conseo> i'll try to find a mbox package
21:08 < mcallan> u are right (and mbox is ugly), but i feel (and think u agree) we *must* handle local file access (i mean without intalling courier etc) *somehow*
21:13 < conseo> dunno. i have no experience with mail setups out there. i know that when you have mail servers running you usually run an imap server today, because it fits almost any needs you could have
21:13 < conseo> but this is only from web reading, not really from sysadmins i know or sth.
21:14 < conseo> so if you tell me that mbox without imap support is common, i'll do it for you
21:14 < conseo> the only problem with maildir support that i had so far is that it doesn't work and i don't know why
21:14 < conseo> maybe i can fix it, but it would still be gpl
21:19 < conseo> that is why i asked in the first place. how do you plan to deal with gpl libraries?
21:19 < mcallan> the admin won't necessarily have a mail server set up, and courier is a non-trivial install. We *should* be able to read/write mail files on the local host. If u tell me no (too difficult), i'll accept that. But please try ur best, within reason.
21:19 < conseo> sure
21:19 < conseo> best is fix javamaildir support imo
21:20 < conseo> but if i do it and you then tell me that we have to drop it because of gpl, then that would be really dumb
21:21 < mcallan> GPL libraries are OK temporarily, if they're tiny trivial things.  Currently only javamaildir and jersey are GPL. So don't put big time into javamaildir.
21:25 < mcallan> conseo: maybe safest is mbox, if it's not too much trouble.  we can always add maildir later, if anyone codes a decent library.
21:25 < conseo> well then i should put no time in javamaildir support, because there is not non-gpl alternative available
21:25 < conseo> ok
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21:57 < conseo> i think i will take http://wiki.modularity.net.au/mstor/index.php?title=Main_Page
21:57 < conseo> it is licensed as is
21:57 < conseo> i go to bed no
21:57 < conseo> n8
22:18 < mcallan> n8
--- Log closed Mon Mar 07 00:00:19 2011